Sean is GM of Media & Entertainment at Veritone — this interview has been lightly edited for style and readability
Sean King: Veritone is an AI software company where we help organizations in both the public and private sector help make sense out of their unstructured data, specifically meaning audio and video. Across our organization, we ingest about 150,000 hours of content a day, and append frame-by-frame analysis of what’s taking place in the audio or in the video: who’s speaking, what are they talking about, what logos may be in the background. And we turn that into actionable data that they can use for different opportunities across their organization.
James Cridland: We have heard the news about Wondery this week. Why have Amazon made the big changes that they have?
SK: At the end of the day, all these organizations make strategic decisions about what their priorities are, especially in an organization as big as Amazon. In my opinion, that restructuring is what I consider to be a little bit of a recalibration.
There’s a shift from more of those traditional studio models into more integrated audio ecosystems. With having Wondery and having Audible and having these different groups, there’s a natural opportunity to consolidate those different ecosystems. More and more podcasts are becoming video orientated and more platform agnostic. And you’re just starting to see different ways in which the medium is being consumed.
In an organization that has so many assets in it from Amazon, if you just think about it from their audio divisions, their film divisions, their streaming platforms: having these abilities to be able to consolidate, it’s typically what you would expect to see in these organizations.
JC: We were looking at how Wondery has done. Wondery has done more podcast to TV conversions than any other company has done. But of course, Amazon being Amazon, we can’t quite see whether or not that was a sustainable business model. What’s your gut feel in terms of that?
SK: It’s a game of numbers. At the end of the day, content is still king. I think a lot of the success that Wondery had in that dates back to Hernán and the founders having background in FOX. Being able to make the right bets on what type of content may be able to transcend platforms from an audio only medium.
But, again, what a wonderful opportunity in these areas and why I’ve always loved the podcasting space is the [low] barrier to entry in podcasting and being able to to create, to incubate, to really develop build that audience.
Just looking at Amazon specifically, from audio to a streaming platform, to Twitch, to video, to movies, and everything else that they do. They have an entire stack.
JC: Is the revenue for the podcast industry still very much focused around host-read ads? When you look at some of the content that Wondery was producing, host-read ads are quite difficult in that sort of narrative experience. But are we still essentially a host-read ad industry or are we moving to something a bit more complex?
SK: I hope we’re going to something that’s a healthy medium.
What I always love about the podcasting space is that it reminds me of driving to work in the 90s, and I had my favorite entertainment that I would listen to. And it was structured in the timeline that I would listen to it.
It’s the trusted voices, it’s on demand, but the accessibility of it is just great. I think the host read ads is a special key component to podcasting, but for podcasting to continue to scale there has to be a healthy balance on being able to create and develop how do you support that with other ads.
We see this all the time in traditional media. In TV, you want to have your Super Bowl ad, that tentpole opportunity. But as a standalone basis, it’s really hard to make that tentpole event work if you don’t have a supporting cast of advertisements and other media taking place. And so it’s similar here, in my opinion, in the podcasting space. You have to leverage that relationship that you have with the host, but you also have to support it to make sure that you’re staying consistent.
JC: What’s next? What should we be worried about?
SK: I think what is changing is being able to find and where and navigate connections across multi-platforms. Your core podcasting group, are you live streaming that, how does the audience on YouTube go over to the different social networks. Your audience just got much more fragmented, so how do you make sure you’re staying connected?
It’s a challenging balance that’s a requirement of smart people and good technology and better data that will allow you to be able to help make the right decisions.
JC: Tthe world of podcasting has seen what TV has seen in the last decade, what radio has seen in the last decade - in that instead of being consumed on one platform, whether that’s live TV or whether that’s AM, FM. All of a sudden, things are being consumed on lots of different platforms. How complicated does that make it in terms of advertising and reaching audiences?
SK: It’s challenging because you’re talking about diverse medias that have very diverse measurements. That means they have very different forms of currency.
It’s very different when you’re looking at a television audience measured on how many thousands Nielsen or Comscore may estimate may have watched or listened to this across AM, FM or television. How does that differ when you’re listening to it from your Apple streaming device? Or how does that differ when you’re downloading through iTunes?
You have to stand on what you’re going to put your importance against and define on what your measurement is and how you’re going to measure success. And then you’re have to look at each one of these things somewhat uniquely to make sure that, you’re accounting for it appropriately.
JC: And in a future where, talking to some people, podcasting is essentially shifting to YouTube - is that a good future for where the industry is going in your view?
SK: I think it’s a good complementary piece. At the end of the day, it was true 100 years ago and it’ll be true in 100 years - content is king. And what’s wonderful about both YouTube and podcasting is that low barrier to entry.
There are people like myself who don’t like to sit down and watch a podcast on YouTube. I like to engage in a podcast purely just using my ears. It’s my opportunity. It’s my focus. That’s how I enjoy it. That’s how I get the most out of it.
But there are people that are the antithesis of me and like to have that sight, sound, and motion with everything.
My daughter does everything on YouTube. Very different than me. But all you’re doing is you’re making sure that your content is accessible, and all the different fragmented platforms are there so that people can consume it. You’re just meeting your audience where they’re at.
JC: Sean, it’s been great to chat. Thank you so much for your time.
SK: My pleasure. Thanks for having me, James.