Molly is host of Brains On! Elena works at the Science Museum of Minnesota — this interview has been lightly edited for style and readability
Molly Bloom: Brains On is a science podcast for kids and their adults. We answer questions that kids send to us from all over the world. Every episode is hosted by me and a kid co-host. The kid co-host is different every time and we go wherever curiosity takes us, so sometimes a kid will interview a scientist, or we’ll have a song about bruises, or we’ll have a skit where we anthropomorphize molecules. It’s a really fun and silly show, but we also take kids’ questions and curiosity very seriously too.
James Cridland: Why did you want to do this research into making podcast content that sparks family conversations? What was the thinking behind it?
MB: This is actually our third study that we’ve done with our partners at the Science Museum of Minnesota, and the first study we did with them was really groundbreaking because there hadn’t been any research really into who was listening to kids’ podcasts and why and how, and so this came out of that first study.
JC: Elena, the world of podcasting has lots of research, but that research is normally based on online surveys. You did things quite differently in this study. So how did it work?
Elena Tsakakis: The first study that we did with Brains On was a survey, and we got some really interesting insights from that, one thing being that almost every family said that they had conversations while they were listening to brains on in the car. And so for us as researchers, that really sent a signal to ask the next question of why? What are those conversations about? What does that look like? Things like that which just couldn’t be answered through a survey.
Being physically in the car in some way could help us understand what those conversations sounded like, how they came to be, and so that was what started to get us thinking about the different opportunities to learn about what this listening experience was like. That didn’t rely on people to think and remember and share that, but would allow us to see things as they were sort of happening and just in a more natural way.
JC: So why did you focus on listening to the podcast in the car rather than anywhere else?
ET: 91% of families from that survey shared that they listened in the car, and that was something that we had had some hypotheses about. We thought people listen to podcasts in the car, it wasn’t shocking, but it was a new learning space. It’s a space that we maybe don’t typically think of as an opportunity to learn in the same way that a classroom would be, or a museum or whatever, and so the car was emerging as this sort of understudied space for learning that happens around podcasts.
JC: I guess there’s less opportunity for multitasking in the car - there’s less other things to do. So I suppose, in terms of a place to learn, it’s actually quite an interesting place.
ET: Yeah, absolutely, our attention is focused when we’re listening at home. We’re very rarely all sitting together on the couch listening to a podcast together. Someone’s doing dishes, someone’s playing with toys, someone’s doing homework, whatever it may be, and when you’re in the car, you’re taking this existing space and parents shared that listening to the podcast helps turn it into a more productive environment, and so they were able to all engage as a family together in listening to the podcast in ways that just weren’t really wasn’t really happening outside of the car.
JC: Molly, what other lessons did you find from the research?
MB: I think one of the interesting things we learned was the moments in the podcast that spark the most interaction. We design our podcast to have those moments, but it was cool to see the ones that aren’t necessarily the games. Like we know, kids love to guess the mystery sound and we know that’s sort of a natural place for interaction. But then to hear about the interaction that just happens from families hearing me talk to the kid co-host was really interesting and surprising. And also hearing the kid interview the expert also sparked questions in ways that we weren’t really expecting. Kids are often the ones starting these conversations, and it’s not just the parents who are trying to engage their kids. So I thought that was really interesting, especially since our show tries to emphasize kids’ voices. It’s very gratifying that that’s sort of coming across and the kids are picking up on that.
ET: I think one thing that we really noticed in the data about one feature, the mystery sound, is that it’s something that’s in every episode.
It follows the same sort of structure. Every time it starts with a little soundbite, Molly says the same thing, or a very close variation of the same thing. So it follows this pattern which allows families to establish their own patterns.
And so when they hear that sound, they immediately have this reaction, and it was clear that they were ready and they knew, and even in some episodes where the mystery sound maybe happened a little later or things like that than they were used to, you could see that coming out in the conversation Like, oh, we haven’t heard the mystery sound yet?
Snother thing that I think contributed to the engagement around the mystery sound was the child co-host guessing. That opened the door for children who are listening to see themselves as guessers as well and answer Molly’s question as though they were on the podcast, as though Molly was asking them and see themselves in that guessing role that the child co-host was modeling in the episode.
JC: Molly, very focused work around kids’ podcasts and learning about science, but are the learnings for any type of podcast in here?
MB: Yeah, I think so. I think there’s a lot to be said for respecting your audience and making something that’s driven by what kids are interested in, and really listening to them and taking them seriously. I think that’s for any kids podcast, and an interesting and important thing to remember.
And then, most adult podcasts are listened to by probably an individual listening on their headphones. Kids’ podcasts have an interesting bonus to them, which is that a lot of times they’re listened to in groups, either family groups or classrooms. So to know that there are multiple people listening and to design your show knowing that there’s these groups listening.
ET: Just having spaces where families and kids in particular, know what to expect. That’s where we saw a lot of engagement and that was true in different segments of the podcast. In addition to the mystery sound, there were other elements where people sort of knew what was coming and they were excited to participate. I think about the call outs, which is inviting kids to share their own idea, their own responses to a silly question, and that was something where, again, once that question was read on the podcast, there was these immediate reactions of oh, what would you say, what would you send in? This is what I think and so like having those things in there that are repetitive but also are inviting that participation I think is really important in this podcast.
MB: It’s a really exciting space that is just sort of underdeveloped right now. There’s far fewer kids podcasts than podcasts for adults, and I think the best thing about making shows for kids and their families is just how appreciative they are and how you become a really big part of their daily life, because if anyone’s ever had a kid or hung out with a kid, they like to listen to the same thing over and over again, and so it’s very impactful to make stuff for kids and to know that it’s sort of shaping who they will become.
JC: Molly, Elena - thank you both so much.