Max is founder of PAVE Studios — this interview has been lightly edited for style and readability
Max Cutler: The idea behind PAVE is pretty simple. I think that over the last few years, the convergence of formats is really happening, whether it’s audio, whether it’s video, whether it’s books. And I felt like there was a need for an independent studio that was focused on the digital narrative to come and launch that owns IP, that works with creators to expand their businesses, that operates in between audio and video.
At PAVE, we don’t say podcast, we say shows because we care about attention. And I don’t personally care if you’re watching on YouTube or if you’re listening on Apple or if you’re consuming on TikTok or Instagram. For us, we want to build community and fandom and really help creators expand their businesses.
We don’t want to be a transaction relationship. We don’t do ad sales. We are very much focused on owning and controlling IP and expanding the business for them.
James Cridland: And books as well, I think as well, too?
MC: Yeah. We’ve noticed in the last few years, as I’m sure you have and others, that more and more podcasters are launching books and becoming best-selling authors, selling millions of books.
When I was at Spotify, we noticed that trend as well, which is probably why Spotify has audiobooks now. So for us, if a creator comes to us and wants to expand their business into publishing, we want to make sure we can we could offer that to them.
JC: So how long has Pave Studios been going now?
MC: Just about a year. I think we launched publicly about a year ago and we started shows coming out about ten months or so ago.
JC: One of the things that I’ve noticed that you have brought over from Parcast is the way that you name your shows. There’s a whole article on the Podnews website about the way that Parcast used to name shows - I think the the the excellent example was a show that that you had which was all about serial killers that you called Serial Killers. Is this is this a you know, is this a Max Cutler Secret Sauce to name shows?
MC: I don’t know if it’s a secret sauce. I’d say maybe it’s to be as straightforward as possible. What I think a lot about is if I was searching for a show, what would I type in - whether it’s on Spotify, whether it’s on YouTube or Apple? In that case, for podcasts, if you’re searching for serial killers, odds are you may search for serial killers or a pro or a Ted Bundy or someone like that. SEO is so important. It’s going to become more and more important.
At PAVE now, we’re definitely sometimes more clever with our names. But at the same time, we want to be true to what we know works. And there’s definitely a hack for SEO.
JC: What other ways of organising shows are you doing at PAVE?
MC: When I was taking a step back and thinking, what do I want to do next - I knew I want to do podcast things. I love it. I know I love digital media and I challenge myself every day to think about if I could build a modern day Paramount. What does that studio look like?
For us, it was clear that owning IP is really important, but also building brands that matter. What is our MTV? What does that look like? In a world with an abundance of amazing content, which there is now, how do you stand out? How do you launch a show and be found?
For us, instead of having a science show next to a comedy show next to a history show, we’ve developed two brands so far, Crime House, which, as you can imagine, is crime content, with the best in class creators and stories and voices that we could then cross promote.
And then we launch OpenMind, which is our curiosity and learning brand, which is a similar approach to that as well. And there’ll be more brands launching in the near future.
JC: There’s a lot of talk here at the podcast show about live events. I think The Rest Is Politics has just announced another tour. They managed to sell out the O2 Arena, which is a massive, massive place - and it’s two people talking about politics! Where do you stand in the whole live event side?
MC: First off, Goalhanger [who own The Rest Is Politics] is the best business in podcasting, I think. I think it’s amazing what they’re doing, Jack and Tony and that team over there, it’s just really impressive.
In terms of a lot of events, it’s incredibly important. You’re building community and fandom and you’re making money. There’s this also other reality of a lot of podcasts that are doing thirty-city tours that are selling out 100 person venues to 1,000 person venues. Some will make money off that, but you really do it for fandom and community, which is why we believe in it so much.
I think if you ask any podcaster that has done a live tour, they would say, wow, I was really burnt out a lot, maybe made a little bit of money, but my podcast grew massively. And I think it grows massively because of the community you’re building. And so for us to offer that to our creators is very important.
JC: It’s been really good to meet you. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.
MC: Likewise, I really appreciate it.