Alex Goldman is host and creator of Hyperfixed — this interview has been lightly edited for style and readability
This is an excerpt of a full interview from Podcast Perspectives. The show is produced by The Podglomerate (the podcast firm specialized in producing, distributing, and monetizing podcasts for high-profile clients including Freakonomics Radio, PBS, Harvard Business School, and more). In each episode, host Jeff Umbro, founder and CEO of The Podglomerate, tackles topics like IP and rights issues, ad tech, podcasting’s role in media at-large, and more. Jeff spoke to Alex on October 2, the launch date of the show.
Jeff Umbro: Alex is the host and creator of Hyperfixed, a brand new podcast distributed by Radiotopia and PRX. How long have you been working on this?
Alex Goldman: I think I started in June. I had a very clear idea of what was going to be. I had like a very clear idea in my head of what was going to be the first episode, and then I started working on it, and a classic problem occurred - this story creep started to happen where I was like “Oh, this is way too interesting. This can’t be one episode.”
So that one got put on the back burner because it suddenly felt huge, suddenly felt like a really big story. And then I had to pivot to these other stories. But that’s the fun and exhaustion of making a show like this - you kpivot to whatever is going to work in the moment, you know?
JU: You decided to launch with two episodes. These are your pilots. I imagine this is a way for you to kind of test the waters of like how people are going to engage with the show. You’re going to pause after this for like six weeks to keep producing and then you’re going to start publishing regularly. Can you walk us through the logic of that?
AG: The logic of it is that I truly did not have enough money to pay for the pre production phase. So my options were to launch with episodes that will suffer; or I can be like: Hey, here’s a taste of these. I’m going to go back and make more. If you like these, please consider supporting this!
So far, like the response has been good. I think it’ll probably be better once we’re full time. But I was genuinely really surprised and humbled by the enthusiasm around the first couple of episodes.
Everybody said to me that there are all these compromises you have to make, and I was sort of like, well, why? I think I can make the thing I want to make, it’s gonna be harder, and maybe I’m gonna have to wait. I understand if people see that I’m launching, and they’re like - this doesn’t make any sense, why would I pay for this thing that there’s gonna be two episodes on for two months? I totally get it. So hopefully when the show becomes regular, I retain those people who were initially doubtful.
JU: Well, I think you’re like one of the few people in the space that can command an audience that would be willing to wait for those two months. What you would view as success? And I’m talking right now about Hyperfixed, but in general, in the podcast space, what would make something successful and or sustainable?
AG: I have some very back of the envelope numbers as to what would make it successful - I’m not a business guy, so I don’t know if these numbers are right or wrong, I’m guessing a little bit. But I feel like success to me is enough to pay three producers and an editor and myself. So it’s a five person team. Right now, we’re a three person team. I am the only full time person. The other people are part time. I’ve still got a ways to go, but I feel like my goals are modest enough that it’s like not impossible.
JU: And you’re gonna fund this through ad sales and through premium subscriptions. Am I missing any part of that equation?
AG: I do have a pet hope that at some point I can do live stuff. I don’t even know what live stuff would look like, but I always enjoy doing that. So I would love to give it a shot.
JU: I think you can. I think there’s an easy avenue to that at some point. But walk me through your partnership with PRX and like what you’re anticipating for ad sales and what your hopes are there.
AG: The goal is to get away from a thing which I really didn’t like when we had to do it for Spotify, which was running ads for things that I don’t like or believe in - products that I think are bad - and being able to do my own ad reads. I think that that is actually a value added thing for listeners, and pays better when you manage to find those sponsors. The CPMs we were getting at Gimlet when we started - 65, 75, it was crazy. Now I think they’re like 25 or 35, right? They’re around there.
JU: It still does vary pretty significantly based on the quality of the show, but the average CPM, if you look at the Libsyn numbers, it’s around 23 bucks, depending on the category.
AG: Really, I’m focused a lot more on growing. It’s not a Patreon, it is through Supporting Cast, but essentially the Supporting Cast, the Patreon for the show. Having a relationship with your audience is more sustainable than relying on ads, which come and go.
JU: Have you thought about like how many people you need for this to, for you to be able to hire your five people and get healthcare and everything?
AG: I have, I’m not a math guy or a business guy, so I don’t know if these numbers are right. But I’m thinking around two hundred thousand people.
JU: Two hundred thousand paying people?
AG: No, no, no. Two hundred thousand listeners, and if you take what the average is, which is you’re converting maybe five percent, That would put me at, you know, 10, 000 subscribers, me, like, that would be more than enough with ads.
JU: Well, good luck on that. I’m going to be following along and trying to figure out, like, how well you’re doing. Well, thank you for joining us. This was awesome. Everybody should check out Hyperfixed.
AG: Thank you so much. It was my pleasure.