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Jon is CEO of the Africa Podcast Network — this interview has been lightly edited for style and readability
This interview is from the Podnews Weekly Review
Jon Savage: The Africa Podcast Network (APN) is the biggest podcast network on the continent. We represent the biggest podcasts and are really focused on monetization. The core of the business is not about ownership, like a traditional network might do, we’re very aggressively in the monetization space. We also represent some of the big networks like SiriusXM and Acast, through our relationship with Ad Swizz on the ground which helps us with our programmatic tech stuff.
Sam Sethi: How do you go about defining what you’re going to do as a podcast? What do you commission? Do people come to you?
JS: There’s two parts of our business, there’s the development part, called AMPD. What we found as APN - and the brutal reality is - there is not much value of having a great podcast that doesn’t have a saleable audience. So we really work inside our AMPD community. The whole thing is about developing people into saleability. APN is really representing podcasters that have the potential. Even the biggest podcasts they’re living off YouTube programmatic revenue, so this is a way to double, triple your revenue by having a strategy and a team behind you. So that’s really the differentiator. Brand safety is also a really important thing - I know it sounds like a buzzword, but we’ve represented the biggest podcasters on the planet from Africa. And even though those numbers are a lot bigger than you can imagine, it actually doesn’t make it saleable, doesn’t actually add the value you think it does. So we’re looking for saleable podcasts that have an established audience.
SS: Tell me more about AMPD.
JS: It’s really something that we as a business are really proud of. It’s the biggest empowerment house. And it’s kind of hard to comprehend if you don’t live in Africa how important this has been to community growth. It’s a big, double storey, huge, safe, beautiful space with the world’s best recording equipment. We have five podcasting studios, and really is it’s just designed for access to equipment, access to people, access to community, access to guests, and we host masterclasses all the time and it’s just to connect creators to monetization - to turn your skill into money. And that’s what its entire driving force is.
We started off as a music studio, and the community turned it into a podcasting studio, always listening. And APN as a business grew out of the fact that we had all these podcasts who were recording in AMPD because it’s a free facility for them, and we realised that the market opportunity was there. So we approached them and we built the Africa Podcast Network very organically out of seeing the need for it. It’s been a very great insight for us and amazing, powerful learning tool to see that a lot of countries have the same problem.
SS: Looking at the continent of Africa - what is the average age of the audience? What are the type of devices they use? And is data still expensive?
JS: You’ve got to remember Spotify only came here like two years ago. They were really late coming here and podcasting wasn’t really a thing here until quite recently. But if you look at any of the data, we’re the fifth biggest market in the world and the fastest growing. One of the things about Africa is we’re completely mobile. This continent never went to PCs because it couldn’t afford them, so we bypassed it straight into mobile, which is why we’re leading the world in innovations in mobile. The reality is that we’re like 96% Android penetration. And when you’re designing apps and projects for Africa, you’ve got to design for the dumbest of the smartphones. Mobile data is an extremely big problem still, but there’s a lot of assumptions that come with the cost of data that people perceive as obstacles that might not be. Even though the problem with the cost of data is significantly prohibitive, it’s not as deep as you think it is. And there are a lot of solutions coming.
SS: Are international brands coming to you now, or are they local brands that are still trying to get into this space?
JS: We do work across Africa and it’s a fledgling market. You know, we launched in October, and have just seen a massive acceleration of growth that is exponential every month. Traditionally here, brands are a lot more conservative than anywhere else in the world, very nervous. It’s always surprising to me. It’s been a lot of education and a lot of testing to show the results. It’s largely the global brands that are looking for Africa and have a presence in Africa. I don’t think that the local market has seen how affordable podcasting is yet. We’re still in the education phase for a lot of people. I feel that Africa is still ripe for a brand to come in and dominate that low budget, and own the podcasting market and build a monstrous business. But you know, we’ve got to just find the right person who’s going to double down on that.
SS: In India, Apple and Spotify are not the number one platforms for content consumption. In fact, there are quite a few local platforms like Jiosaavn in being one. Is that the same in Africa or in South Africa itself? Or is it just dominated by Spotify now they’re there?
JC: Everything in Africa has to happen backwards! We’re dominated by YouTube. We have been for a long time. Companies like Netflix have struggled here. YouTube is the preferred destination. And even when we talk about podcasting, we’ve always spoken about YouTube as a part of it. Now the rest of the world, YouTube is becoming important in podcasting - here, it started that way, so that is the dominant player here.
SS: What’s holding back, in your opinion, further growth? What needs to change in Africa now to see a further explosion in podcast adoption?
JS: In terms of the audience size, we’re doing really well, we’re growing really fast. I believe that in Africa we have some of the best podcasts in the world. In most of the world people say, Oh, I’ve got an idea for a podcast. Let me start one. In Africa, it’s like life or death. People are starting with nothing, to build a career. I think we have a really healthy space. It’s really about brands believing in the space and understanding the scale and the power of space and not being too afraid. You know, podcasters are unregulated. They swear, they say things that aren’t always great and it’s getting brands to relax into that, which is a big challenge. But it’s just time. I think we’re on a really great wicket. It’s an exciting space.
SS: Thank you so much.
JS: What a pleasure. Thank you.
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